Samaysaar, Pravachansaar use for shravak?

Famous principled scriptures like Samaysaar or Pravachansaar are written for veetraag samyakdrishti (muni maharaaj) & not saraag samyakdrishti (shravak) then why do shravak like us read these granths?

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I am not sure where it says you cannot read these great Granths…can you please show me? …You may need guidance to understand it but if you are scholar then no one can stop you from reading them and benefiting from these great Granths…life is in vain if we die before swadhyay of great Samaysar granth…

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  1. लोग शायद इसलिए ऐसा कहते है क्योंकि ग्रंथ में जगह-जगह साधु शब्द
    का प्रयोग किया गया है। परंतु वहाँ साधु शब्द सम्बोधन के अर्थ
    प्रयुक्त है।
  2. गाथा-5 में आचार्य ने कहा कि “मैं एकत्व-विभक्त्व आत्मा को दर्शाउँगा”,
    तो एकत्व-विभक्त्व भावना सुनने के अधिकारी श्रावक हैं।
  3. गाथा-19 में बताया कि यह जीव कब तक अप्रतिबुद्ध रहेगा, तो क्या यह
    ज्ञानी मुनियों के लिए हो सकता है? अतः यह अज्ञानी श्रावकों के लिए है।
  4. गाथा-13 में नव तत्व को जानकर सम्यकत्व प्रकट करने का मार्ग बताया,
    तो क्या मुनिराजों को सम्यक्त्व प्रगट करना शेष रह है? अतः यह ग्रंथ
    श्रावको के लिए भी है।
  5. टीका के अंत में कहा कि “यह ग्रंथ नष्ट न होने रूप जगत चक्षु है” ,और
    मुनिराज तो तीन रत्नत्रय के धारी है। अतः इस चक्षु की आवश्यकता
    श्रावकों को है।
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  1. 5 महाव्रत तो मुनियो के ही होते है, तो क्या जिन शास्त्रों में मुनि धर्म बताया है (भगवती आराधना etc), क्या हम उन्हें नहीं पढ़ते ?
  2. और 6-7-8 आदि गुणस्थान तो मुनियो के ही होते है तो क्या जिन शास्त्रों में इन गुणस्थानो कि चर्चा है (गोम्मटसार etc), क्या हम उन्हें नहीं पढ़ते ?
  3. और द्वादशांग में प्रथम तो आचार्य अंग है, तो क्या उसे सिर्फ मुनि ही सुनते है, समोसरण में जो अन्य असंख्यात देव तिर्यंच बैठे है वो क्या उठ कर चले जाते है ?
  4. और जिन शास्त्रों में वीतरागी सम्यकदृष्टि कि चर्चा है यदि उसे ही नहीं पड़ेंगे तो हम वीतरागी सम्यकदृष्टि कैसे बनेंगे ?

और ज्ञान ही नहीं होगा तो श्रद्धान किसका करेंगे ?

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While I agree with some of your points, there is another question which comes to my mind -

Do you support reading of shri Kashaypahud or shri Kshatkhandagama for shravaks or their tikas such as the Dhavala because these granths have been specifically restricted for reading by shravaks?

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It’s not necessary that every muniraaj has knowledge beforehand only. Earlier Munis were given diksha if they could follow the 28 mulgun perfectly and only later on were taught by Upadhyay parmesti who were knowledgeable munis tasked with educating new munis who followed the outer conduct perfectly but needed more knowledge now that they had taken diksha. Chakshu ki avashyakta muni maharaaj ko bhi hai.

while I appreciate your points, I would also like to point that still most of the gathas are directed for and towards muni maharaaj only.

One final query I have -

Do you support reading of shri Kashaypahud or shri Kshatkhandagama for shravaks or their tikas such as the Dhavala because these granths have been specifically restricted for reading by shravaks?

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Yes, I don’t think there are any restrictions

Ok. Actually my shikshaguru told me that shri kashaypahud or shri kshatkhandagam is for muni maharaaj only. He also told me about some other granths that are only for muni maharaaj’s reading and understanding. Since they contain advance knowledge and necessarily need teachers for reading each gatha.

He told me that earlier in the 4th Era, pandits were very less but most knowledgeable were the upadhyay parmesti so Jain householders only had entry level and intermediate level knowledge. However, advanced and expert level knowledge was only available with upadhyay parmesti and they only used to teach muni maharaaj.

Nevertheless. We may agree to disagree.

These are original and difficult to understand for normal person. But we should try one day once we have finished all other scriptures swadhayay … I think Pandit Todarmalji’s ‘SamyekGyan Chandrika’ is on this subject…we can start with it first

This logic is vaguely inconclusive. Without knowing the right path how can someone walk through it.

Also, riddle this out for me -
Who is accountable for keeping, securing and beholding Scriptures?
How do so many other-religion-oriented-men got converted and became Jain Acharyas with distinguished abilities?
What are principled scriptures for, if they can’t curb the curiosity of principled (Shravak) men?
Every scripture has a principled element of Jain Philosophy, how could we read any of them?
If we believe acharyas are veetrag samyagdrishtis, then they should keep such scriptures in their custody? Can they even keep them?

Conclusion - I request you to please please please read some of these principled scriptures to find out the basic difference between Sarag and Veetrag Samyagdrishti. :pray::pray::pray::pray:

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I believe that sufficient knowledge of the right path is covered under basic and intermediate granths such as the Ratnakarandak shravakachaar.

Shravak when the knowledge is written. However do note that none of the scriptural knowledge before shri kashaypahud was in written format. Every part of the knowledge was verbal and the custodian of such knowledge were muni maharaj and not shravak pandits. Shri kashaypahud being written by a muni and not a shravak is enough proof that shravaks or householders were normally not cast the responsibility of keeping knowledge secure or safe.

Because of the principled answers they got from Jain muni maharaaj. Most of the verbal duels written in agam consist of a person from other faith discussing philosophy with muni maharaaj and muni maharaaj clearing his or her doubts.

Again I reiterate that shravaks were meant to follow the basic conduct of a householder layperson and acceptance of partial self restraint. Shravaks were not pandits and most of the knowledge which was by way of verbal transmission existed in upadhyay parmesti. Have you ever heard of a shravak reading the 10 or 14 purva? Earlier if shravak had doubts they used to go to muni maharaaj to clear them.

Most scriptures have a simple version of advanced concepts for understanding. Shravak is supposed to be a middle school student. While muni maharaaj are supposed to be high school students.

Again. There were no written scriptures before shri kashaypahud ji. All knowledge existed in the minds of upadhyay parmesti that too learnt through verbal method and not written. So they were the real custodians of such knowledge. Hence I believe this question does not have much of a point of relevance.

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It is a principled scripture.

We are talking about reading from scriptures not writing them. The ability of securely safeguarding the knowledge is the duty of Muni but the ability to understand them is destined to be with both. Intention of Shrutgyan is to help a person understand the philosophy only… It’s reading won’t give you Samygadarshan-gyan or charitra.

Please read the introductions of the works by Aa. Akalank, Aa. Vidyanand, Aa. Amritchandra, etc.

Also, generally the philosophical duels end up in victory not necessarily conversion.

Also, if we were so good at this why is our population so less. Please read introductions of other philosophical works by Bauddha, Vedant and Vaisheshik.

Who said so?

How do we expect Shravak Pandita to exist at all… If this was the case… And today because of this neither most of the Muni maharaj have the knowledge of the principled works and those who have was given by reading the principled scriptures edited, preserved by Shravak Pandits.

Sir, don’t you think this too has happened rigorously in the past few decades but no result.

This is partially Bauddh philosophy.

Covered.

सराग सम्यग्दर्शन - Stays up till 6th Gunasthan so Muni Maharaj should also not read them and 7th Gunasthan is considered for शुद्धोपयोग according to such principled scriptures. And reading scriptures is raag.

Sir, I respect your deep and intellectually elevated thought, why don’t to give them a try.

If these scriptures are to be studied by Muni Maharaaj then every Muni should have read/studied them after the initiation ceremony.

Our every scripture is written on the basis of these scriptures… Without understanding them everything else is quite secondary.

In one of these, they say that the 1st way to Samyagdarshan is knowing Arihant so as to understand yourself which will lead to 5 labdhi and hence, annihilation of Moh.

And the second way is SWADHYAY.

This talk has been originated from कालाचार - which says that we mustn’t read principled scriptures at a specific time like Sandhi kaal etc.
But not to read them at all. Also, there principled means - very deep कर्म-सिद्धान्त-प्रधान-ग्रन्थ, etc. Which are difficult to understand. This is so, so that the person is too attentive. समयसार is spiritual and should be read, recited or remembered as and when possible all during the day. (समयसार - written in prakrit, is in itself indicates it’s for all)

I’ve no intention to fight… but just opposing so that we become more curious. And either of us or both of us become a muni one day and this study that we’d do today will fruit wonders.

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