Karma uday or bandh

Simple question again.

For e.g. aaj agar meri pizza khane ki iccha hoti hai and mein pizza kha kar aa jata hoon to yeah mere karma ka uday hai otherwise i have created new karma for myself.

Pizza khane ki iccha and pizza khana agar mere karma ka uday hai then how could i have done differently ki mein naye karma nahin bandhoon. Please help mein understand this.

Karma attma karti hai yeh karma se hi nayi karma ka bandh hota hai … jaise ki agar maine pizza nahin khaya hota ye soch kar ki ismein kafi hinsa hai like petrol kharch hoga etc etc toh kya mera karma nirjara ho gayi …
yeah iccha karke pizza khana was the wrong thing to do.

1 Like

I think, you’ll get your solution in Moksh Marg Prakashak Chapter 2, Page 2 (Karmo ke anadipane ki sidhhi wala prakaran). Check it out once.

1 Like

Baat barabar hai ki, karmo se naye karm bandte hai. Par ye dosh agar tum karmo ko dedoge toh ye baat thik bhi nahi hai. Praman ke dayre me aane ke baad usmese nischay nikalna mumushu ka kartavya hai. Isliye phele toh ye baat manlo ki pizza khane ki ichaa tumari thi. Tumne swa me ichaa na rakhke par me ichaa ki isse bada dosh kuch nahi hai.
Itna swikar karne ke bad ab nischay ki baat karte hai.
Karmo toh jadh vastu hai. Ab ye jadh vastu hum cheten vastu ka kya bigad kar sakta hai. Jain dharm ka siddhant hai ki ek dhravya dusre dhravya ka kuch nahi kar sakta. Ab aase me ek karma dusre karma ko utpan nahi kar sakta hai. Karma tere vastu hi nahi hai. Ye do desire hai pizza khaneki vo teri vastu hi nahi hai. Ispar se drashti hatana hi mumukshu ka kartavya hai.

Dusri baat apko khena chata hu ki, pizza khane ya na khane se nirjara nahi ho sakti. Reason: mere pizza na khanese karma nahi bandenge. Ye baat me karta pana hai. Aur ye baat ye bhi batati hai ki ek dhravya dusre dhravya ka karan bana. Isme mithyatya ka hi band hoga.
Toh ab kya karna chaiye? Jaise ki phele bhi bataya praman ke dayre me aane ke baad nischay ko nikalo. Ye jo kuch bhi hua vo tere paryaay me hua, jo ki shanik thi, tu vaisa ka vaisa reh gaya. Aaise toh aanant desire aake chali gai, par tu vaisa ka vaisa reh gaya. Sudh! Aaise karke swa teraf drashti mudte hi naye karmo ka band nahi hota!
Ab vyavhar rup se dekha jaye toh Aise karmo tune kiye honge ki ek samay aaisa aayega ki drashti swa teraf jayegi. Paryaay krambadh hai ye bhi vyavhar nay ka hi vishay hai. Vyavhar nay matra saiyogo ka dhyan karata hai. Tu vyavhar jaanke, matra nischay ko pakad.

3 Likes

aapki baat se kuch aisa laga ki iccha karm phal nahin hai instead aatama ke bhav hai jo ki apni sudh paryay nahin jaan paane ki vajah se hoti hai. ismein aatma ki badi galti ye hai ki woh apne ko nahin jaanta

Ye baat toh paradox ho gayi … ek taraf toh ye bolte hai ki karm ka karta aatma hi hai and aatama hi karma phal bhogata hai and ek taraf yeh baat ho gayi ki bas dekho ki tum karm se alag ho … ye baat ki paryay se hui and ye maan lena ki mein sudh aatma hoon tikh bhi hai to issi karm ki kushalata kaise aayegi … aise to bas jiv nirasha mein chala jayega … kyunki aisa lagega ki karm waste hai and this is suicidal thought aur kuch jiv aisa bhi soch sakta hai ki hinsa bhi justifiy kar sakte hai ye bol kar ki maine to karm kiya and us karm ka mein jimmadar nahin hoon kyunki mein to hamesha avikari hi tha and iske baad bhi avikari hi rahooonga

Jainism अनेकान्तवाद hai ! Aur anekantvad paradox lag sakta hai.
Vyavhar Nay se app ye keh sakte ho ki koi icha aane ka karan koi karma hoga.
jaise ki phele bhi mene batya ki, yeh baat sunne aur khene se phele jiv ko praman ke dayre me aana necessary hai. Praman ki vishay se dekhe toh usme aatma dhravya- paryaay swarup hota hai. Yaha pe jiv ye swikar kar leta hai ki jo paryaay ho rahi hai vo uski hi hai. Jo galtiya ho rahi hai vo uski hi hai. Idhar tak aajane ke baad usse aatma ki aur lejane vala nay nischay nay hota hai.

Vyavahar Nay vastu ko samjane ki liye upyog kiya jata hai. Kyu ki vastu ko kaha nahi jaa sakta. sirf anubhav kiya ja sakta hai. eg how can i define sweetness by words? All i can say is Sugar is called as sweet. (but one who still not eaten any sweet product, will still not understand.) Thik isi prakar, Vyavahar nay ke vachan kehne aur samjane ki liye upyog kiye jate hai. Par samajna toh nichay nay ko hi hai. Sastro me Vyahar nay ko Asatyart bhi kaha gaya hai. Usse jutha bhi kaha gaya hai.

Nischay nay ki baate isi liye jiv ko praman ke dayre me aane ke baad ki jati hai. Nahi toh vo behparva ho jata hai. Hamesha sidi (ladder) upar chadne ke liye updesh diye jate hai. Iska agar koi ulta aarth lele aur hinsa karne lage toh vo hi jane uske sath kya hoga!

Sahi mane me dekha jaye toh, anubhuti ke time, jo aanand aata hai vo paryaay me hi aata hai. Aur vo paryaay apne aap ko aparinami dhravya hi manti hai. Aur apne aap ko dhravya maane ne ke karan us waqt paryaay aur dhravya aase bhed nahi hote. Kewal aatma hota hai.

1 Like

Ok somewhat understood but can you apply this to the situation I described above.

  1. Mein bazaar gaya (or I should not have gone to bazaar at first place or I should have gone to bazaar If their was a dire need of it): Ye ho sakta hai ki baazar jaana mera pra-rabdh ho kisi karm ke uday vash mujhe jaana pade
  2. Agar mein bazaar jaoonga toh I have to keep my eyes open and see things
  3. Maine dominos dekha
  4. Meri pizza khane ki iccha hui (Shayad maine pehle kabhi pizza khane ko accha mana hoga and uski anumodna kari hogi or ho sakta hai ki maine pehli baar domnios dekha and mere kisi karma ki uday se iccha jaagi)
  5. Ab is iccha ko mein kaise pramaan ke dayare mein la kar soch sakta hoon ki mere bandh na ho or agar kisi paap ka bandh hone waala ho toh nirjara ho kar woh khatam ho jaaye.
  6. And suppose maine iccha ko ignore kar diya (without knowledge of self and suppose with knowledge of self) and phir bhi koi dost mil gaya and kaha pizza ready hai join kar lo and maine woh pizza khaa liya toh kya mein is situation mein ise karm phal maan sakta hooon. External action samajh aata hai woh karm phal ho sakta hai …
  7. Or I can say whenever I have a choice then wahan par mujhe pramaan ki dayare mein sochna chahiye

So it all comes to this final question that has been haunting me for sometime is what is atmanubhuti? Kya mein jo raag/dwsh anubhav kar raha hoon woh mere aatma ka anubhav hai … toh phir maine aaj tak raag/dwsh hi anubhav kiya hai … or there is more to it .

1 Like

Answering the last question first, abhi ke liye aaisa samaj lena ki jo vastu raag aur dwesh ko jaanti hai vo jaanne vali vastu hi aatma hai. Aatma raag aur dwesh ko janti hai, karti nahi. (thats the promotion you get after you accept that praman vali vastu which has both dhravya and paryaay is you, and now you want to be only pure thing). Gyan hai vo aatma hai, raag dwesh aur aanya bhaav par dhravya hai. Reason: kya tumhe 24x7 dwesh ya raag ka bhaav rehta hai? Nahi. Ye aane aur jane vali chez hai. Par tumhara gyan, har samay present hai. Har samay jananeka kam karta hai. Aatma me swa aur par jaanne ki shakti hai. Karne ki nahi. Aatma swa ko janta hai aur usme par jaanene me aa jata hai. (there is still more to this)

Bhed gyan. Har samay bhed gyan se shuru karo, phele phele do teen din ke baad khayal me aayega, ki ye me nahi, phir do ghante me, phir aaisa samay aayega ki kriya ke time hi bhed gyan ho payega. Iske karan usse ekatva bhaav nahi hoga.
Nirjara matra swa par laksh rehne se hota hai. Isiliye kaha gaya hai ki gyaniyo ko toh bhoog bhi nirjara ka karan banta hai. Kyu ki kriya bhale ho, par unka laksh ussi samay swa par hi hota hai. Remember never cheat yourself!

Then from this viewpoint aatma karma ka karta hi nahin hai … aatama ek tarah ka darvya hai jispar pudgal aakar mil jaate hai and woh bhi kyunki aatma ne swa par nahin balki par mein dhyan lagaya and sahi se gyan ka upyog nahin kiya and from this viewpoint sansar ek tarah ka drama hai kyunki its just mixing up of jiv and pudgal which produce results in form of karma? is that the viewpoint? is viewpoint se toh jinendra bhagwan ki bhakti bhi par ki bhakti hai?

No two of the items cannot ever mix. Its just that we think they are mixed. Abhipray (belief matters the most).
Bhaav se band aur bhaav se moksh. Shrimad Rajchandraji ka ek bol hai Moksh thai nahi, Moksh samjay che. (Moksh hota nahi hai, Moksh samajme aata hai, jo samaj gaya uska moksh ho gaya)

Ha, jin bhagvan bhi par ki bhakti hi hai.
Jinwani me unhone ye kaha hai ki tu mera laksh chodega nahi toh tuje tera dhravya nahi milega. Par abhipray sacha karbe ke baad bhakti karega toh 60% thik hai. Kyu ki doing bhakti is better than eating pizza.
Par abhipray me hamesha aaisa samaj lena bhakti karne se shubh bhaav honge jis ke karan puniya ka bandh hoga. Aur swa par laksh hone se nirjara hogi.
Subh bhaav ashubh bhaav se bachne ke liye hai.

I can tell you this, only because i know you wont take it in wrong sense and stop doing bhakti and do other work. But yes, jiv always have vinay towards those gods who have given us such things. Real respect lies in following what they have told!

1 Like

this must be subject of samaysaar and this is good to know. i think before embarking on this kind of journey guru is a must and he can only guide you.

as a grahasta will concentrate on the usual paap punya and jinendra bhakti…

thanks for taking time for sharing your thoughts

1 Like

Aapki pizza khaane ki iccha hui yeh kinhi purane karmo ke uday se sambhav hua hoga.

Parantu karmo ka uday dravya, kshetra, kaal, bhav aur bhaav ke anusaar kaafi zyaada badal bhi jaata hai.

Jaise shubh karmo ka uday agar narakgati mai ho bhi toh bhi koi acchi vastu ki prapti nahi ho pati kyunki woh paryay hii aisi hai.

Mera kehna ka matlab yeh hai ki karmo ke uday mai raudradhyaan hoga ya nahi yeh aapke haath mai hai. Karma teevra ho sakte hai par unn karmo ke uday mai aapke parinamo par kya asar padega yeh aapke haath mai bhi hai.

Agar aisa nahi hota toh purushartha ka kya fayeda. Phir toh purushartha ka poora concept hii galat ho jayega.